This is the recent traffic on the #SPF-council IRC channel on irc.pobox.com. Anyone may join the channel, but only council members can talk.
If you do not have access to IRC, you may view the recent traffic at: http://www.schlitt.net/spf/spf-council/now/irc_log.html.
This log can be can be viewed at: http://www.schlitt.net/spf/spf-council/2006/10/07_irc_log.html.
IRC nicknames:
| Julian | Julian Mehnle |
| MarkK | Mark Kramer (asarian-host.net) |
| SDGathman | Stuart Gathman |
| shew | Mark Shewmaker |
| willix | William Leibzon |
| freeside | Meng Weng Wong |
| gconnor | Greg Connor |
| grumpy | Wayne Schlitt |
| --- Sat Sep 30 18:39:10 UTC 2006 --- | ||
| 18:39 | <SDGathman> | hello? |
| 19:35 | <shew> | Hi. |
| 19:35 | <shew> | I guess no meeting today. |
| 19:35 | <SDGathman> | Julian couldn't make it - see email. |
| 19:38 | <shew> | ok |
| --- Sat Oct 7 16:55:46 UTC 2006 --- | ||
| 16:55 | <SDGathman> | Anyone here? |
| 16:56 | <SDGathman> | Oh, 18:00 UTC this time... |
| 18:20 | <Julian> | Hi all. |
| 18:20 | <SDGathman> | Hello |
| 18:20 | <Julian> | I haven't heard anything from MarkK. |
| 18:21 | <shew> | It is very unlikely that I will be able to be here next week. |
| 18:22 | <Julian> | Due to the very unlucky crash of my server last week <http://julian.io.link-m.de/misc/io-recovery-chaos-at-home.jpg> <http://julian.io.link-m.de/misc/epox-mvp3c-bad-capacitor.jpg>, I haven't had the time to prepare an agenda. |
| 18:22 | <Julian> | ...nor did I manage to make significant further progress on Mail::SPF, which is really, really almost done now. I'm now just writing lots of unit tests. |
| 18:25 | <SDGathman> | Have you written a driver for the rfc test suite? |
| 18:25 | <SDGathman> | That provides lots of tests for you now. |
| 18:28 | <willix> | hi |
| 18:29 | <willix> | i may not have much time today after all - probably another 30 minutes |
| 18:30 | <SDGathman> | There is a lively discussion taking place on #spf |
| 18:30 | <willix> | what about? |
| 18:31 | <SDGathman> | The a:%{h} test case. |
| 18:31 | <Julian> | No, I haven't written a driver yet. But I will. |
| 18:32 | <Julian> | OK, we don't have an agenda today. I know this sucks. And we're about to lose quorum soon. So let's bring up important issues. |
| 18:33 | <SDGathman> | 1) Website transition |
| 18:33 | <Julian> | 2) ScottK suggested that we choose a master editor for the RFC errata. |
| 18:33 | <willix> | Did Wayne not want to do that? |
| 18:34 | <willix> | Its typically one of the authors that would collect the errata |
| 18:35 | <willix> | What I do want to say is that I think the RFC text published on openspf website should be the one that includes the errata along with links to original and to errata itself |
| 18:36 | <Julian> | I'll stress again that the position would mostly be a lawyer position. |
| 18:37 | <willix> | i dont think so - it'd be closer to editor |
| 18:38 | <Julian> | The council (and Wayne, in his position as the RFC's author) would make the final decisions. |
| 18:39 | <shew> | From a practical point of view, it might be useful for the site or RFC pages to point out a growing list of errata-ish confusing points. |
| 18:39 | <Julian> | The errata editor would simply collect items and pre-filter them for the council to decide. |
| 18:39 | <Julian> | Then he would edit the list according to the council's decisions. |
| 18:40 | <shew> | In the same way that wiki's ideally log developing information, a growing/updated list of errata type issues is, I would think, just as important as writing up an official errata (no matter how that's done and sent through to Wayne/Meng.) |
| 18:40 | <Julian> | Let's do approval voting. Everyone please list all the candidates for an errata master editor that you would approve. |
| 18:40 | <Julian> | I'll start: Wayne, Frank. |
| 18:41 | <shew> | Uhm before that--do we actually need one yet? |
| 18:41 | <Julian> | I think so. |
| 18:41 | <Julian> | _I_ am definitely _not_ going to search all of spf-discuss for old errata in a few months when we decide that we now finally want to write them down in an organized manner. |
| 18:42 | <shew> | Well, we could go on and make a page to keep this up, errata master or not. |
| 18:42 | <Julian> | This is not about writing an _official_ list of errata for the RFC editor yet. |
| 18:42 | <willix> | I'm not sure we need single editor for just collecting errata suggestions |
| 18:43 | <Julian> | Well, OK, let's appoint multiple ones. Or will someone do it without being appointed? It hasn't happened so far... *sigh* |
| 18:43 | <willix> | lets just call for volunteers and all those who volunteer get to do it |
| 18:44 | <Julian> | That same approach doesn't seem to work well for the website. |
| 18:45 | <shew> | Clarification: Would a page linked off of http://new.openspf.org/Specifications that lists these developing errata be sufficient for now? |
| 18:45 | <shew> | (Forgetting the question of who develops it and keeps it up to date.) |
| 18:45 | <SDGathman> | Shew, yes. |
| 18:46 | <SDGathman> | Then any of us with write access can add proposed errata. |
| 18:46 | <shew> | Good. |
| 18:46 | <SDGathman> | Would help me if formatting was established with an example. |
| 18:46 | <SDGathman> | For instance, start off with the obvious 'v macro missing from ABNF' |
| 18:46 | <shew> | If that's the case, then I will volunteer to be one of the people who everyone can feel free to hit over the head if they don't update the page. |
| 18:47 | <Julian> | http://new.openspf.org/RFC_4408/Errata already exists. |
| 18:48 | <Julian> | That page should have several sections: approved, proposed, rejected. |
| 18:48 | <shew> | And a general discussion? |
| 18:49 | <shew> | (Or something along those lines--for before we get to the formal language of an rfc.) |
| 18:49 | <Julian> | What do you mean by general discussion? Isn't spf-discuss enough? |
| 18:49 | <shew> | Hmm. Never mind--that could be under each proposed section. Implementation detail. |
| 18:50 | <willix> | what we need is to let people who proposed errata suggestion know where to check that their suggestion has been logged |
| 18:51 | <willix> | an email to spf-discuss & spf-devel would be enough after we log existing ones |
| 18:51 | <Julian> | _Who_ is going to log it? |
| 18:52 | <willix> | I think shew just volunteered and anyone else who want to help can do it too |
| 18:52 | <shew> | I will join a list of folks to do so. Feel free to badger me if I don't update the pages. |
| 18:52 | <shew> | And I will put contact info as part of that page. |
| 18:53 | <shew> | (I don't fully understand the issues brought up, and this will force me to keep on top of them.) |
| 18:53 | <Julian> | What contact info? Please refer to the "Contact" page or the "Forums" page if possible. |
| 18:53 | <shew> | Okay. |
| 18:55 | <Julian> | OK, (1) website transition. |
| 18:55 | <Julian> | I think Wayne is about to raise a (3)... |
| 18:56 | <willix> | we can't possibly translate into every language |
| 18:56 | <grumpy> | Julian has asked me to speak up on this here... we have talked about it before, but I think the openspf domain needs to be taken out of my exclusive control. |
| 18:56 | <grumpy> | IIRC, there was discussion about transfering it to the apache foundation |
| 18:57 | <Julian> | willix: transition != translation |
| 18:57 | <willix> | sorry |
| 18:57 | <Julian> | I recall that someone wanted to ask the ASF about it. |
| 18:57 | <willix> | that would need official decision of the council |
| 18:57 | <Julian> | Someone wanted to _ask_ them first. |
| 18:57 | <Julian> | Did this happen? |
| 18:58 | <Julian> | Has somebody asked them? |
| 18:58 | <willix> | I volunteered but did not get to it. |
| 18:58 | <grumpy> | for what it is worth, one of the secondary NS for openspf.org is again saying that it is a lame server. it probably needs to be kicked again to transfer the zone. |
| 18:58 | <willix> | Largely as I did not feel there was really much support from council |
| 18:58 | <grumpy> | willix: well, you have my support, but I'm not on the council |
| 18:59 | <Julian> | willix: Well, everyone agreed that you should proceed and ask them. |
| 18:59 | <willix> | I'll do it this week since we brought it up and by Wayne this time and report next week. |
| 18:59 | <Julian> | If no one has asked the ASF or a similar institution, then outsourcing the domain ownership is obviously not an option. |
| 19:00 | <willix> | I have to go in < 5 minutes |
| 19:00 | <grumpy> | for what it is worth, I have recently renewed several SPF-related domains that I thought were worth keeping and have let expire ones that have never gotten siginificant lookups. |
| 19:00 | <Julian> | grumpy: Which ones did you deliberately keep and which ones did you drop? |
| 19:01 | <Julian> | (asking out of interest) |
| 19:01 | <willix> | send email to spf-council with list of domains |
| 19:01 | <Julian> | OK, we're losing quorum. No more decisions today. |
| 19:01 | <grumpy> | Julian: I'll send email, that would be best |
| 19:02 | <Julian> | The #spf-council logs end up on the list anyway. |
| 19:02 | <willix> | add official agenda for next meeting: |
| 19:02 | <grumpy> | true, but I don't remember them right off hand. It was several weeks back |
| 19:02 | <willix> | 1. domain & other spf assets |
| 19:02 | <willix> | 2. what do it about council members who do not show up for meetings for very long time |
| 19:03 | <willix> | and whatever else comes in during the week of course |
| 19:03 | <Julian> | 3. Website transition |
| 19:03 | <Julian> | 4. Status of the test suite |
| 19:03 | <Julian> | 5. Status of Mail::SPF |
| 19:03 | <Julian> | 6. Future strategy |
| 19:04 | <willix> | ok |
| 19:04 | <willix> | later |
| 19:04 | <shew> | ok |
| 19:04 | <shew> | I won't be here next week. |
| 19:04 | <willix> | \quit |
| 19:04 | <Julian> | I won't be able to make next week's meeting, either. |
| 19:04 | <Julian> | Perhaps we can meet in two weeks. |
| 19:05 | <shew> | Should we just cancel next week's meeting then, since that implies no quorum. |
| 19:05 | <Julian> | Sure. I'll send a mail, also asking for a formal meeting in two weeks. |
| 19:05 | <shew> | Okay. |
| 19:06 | <Julian> | We need people doing stuff. |
| 19:07 | <Julian> | When I ask if Frank wants to take on the job of managing the list of errata, why can't he just say "OK, I'll do it"? Why does everything have to be discussed to death? |
| 19:07 | <shew> | Heh. |
| 19:07 | <shew> | Well, this forces me to help update that page. |
| 19:10 | <Julian> | I know that getting the new website done is the top priority, and since the wizard and the why page are important parts of it, and since Mail::SPF::Query are really NOT suited to the job, and since Shevek and I were the ones who started the only Perl-based alternative (Mail::SPF), and since I am the only one still hacking on Mail::SPF, that's what I have been doing for the past weeks. |
| 19:11 | <shew> | I am always astounded by your unending work. |
| 19:12 | <Julian> | Oh, I haven't done nearly as much as I should have. |
| 19:13 | <Julian> | I may have done a lot, but I have set some bad priorities, too. |
| 19:14 | <Julian> | In hindsight, it may have been a better idea to try to use Mail::SPF::Query for the new website's wizard and "why" page. |
| 19:14 | <Julian> | It might have speeded the website transition up. |